Whoever thought change would be demanded in Carnatic music, that bedrock of traditional music that’s as old as our gods, had not contended with T.M. Krishna.

The 21st century Indian classical music scene in south India has been shaken up because he does not shy away from asking uncomfortable questions, demanding social inclusiveness and standing steadfast in the face of accusations of courting controversies in the music world and beyond. Krishna debates about casteism, gender sensitivity, subalternism and the very format of Carnatic music and engages through his prolific writing about politics and society.

Beyond the flurry that follows his social reform protests, the Ramon Magsaysay awardee has written in his latest book, Reshaping Art, about how humanism, empathy and kindredness must be the soul of art and society. Following the release of his book, Reshaping Art, in an exclusive interview to this newspaper maestro T.M. Krishna speaks about the “destructive evolution of art”.

Your first book A Southern Music — The Karnatik Story brought a complete change in how you are perceived now as an artist. Many call you a polemicist today. What would you call yourself today?
I sing as much as I write or speak. Today, I sing at places that cover a wide range of cultures, community spaces and with musicians from across the social-aesthetic spectrum. There is no doubt that I have become socially, aesthetically and politically very active. It is the music that urges me to speak and write about issues that exist within and around me. But I will still call myself a singer.

In the Indian art world you’re the lone and perhaps the first classical musician who’s urging that art must be inclusive. What are the challenges you face?
I do not think I should complain about any of the challenges I have faced or continue to do so. My privileges in society, which include caste, class, gender and education, allow me to face them, fight them and tide over these obstacles. It is people who have been denied these social privileges, yet find the courage to raise the voice who are the true fighters. 

You call the Carnatic concert “a complete Brahmin brainwashing package” in the book. If music moves the listener, does it also not have the capacity for empathy?
I think we all need to urgently think about the essence of Karnatik music. We have to seek deep within ourselves with utter honesty and wonder how much of our love for the art comes from the music and how much is about reiterating our caste and gender pride. Karnatik music moves us in many ways and that needs investigation. I am moved when the music unabashedly celebrates my caste's history. At the same time I am also deeply moved when the sound envelopes me sans identity. Critical thinking must separate the two, seek the latter and question the former and challenge the past and present.

If Carnatic music is making you uncomfortable for its caste and gender inequities, how do you reconcile the dichotomy as a working musician?
Dichotomies exist in everything we do in life and in my case also Karnatik music. If we are looking for creaselessness, it does not exist. We have to recognise and deal with the wrinkles. As a working musician I allow for these dichotomies to contest each other and attempt to make the music a questioner.

What are the learnings in the five years you have engaged in many outreach programmes?
Through the various initiatives, engagements and disengagements I am convinced that cultural conversations via art are essential for waking society. It is the most beautiful way of allowing people to celebrate one another. Though some of these are momentary, it is from creating, curating multiple cross-cultural interactions that respect and celebration happen. At the same time it is important to keep in mind that society is intrinsically undulated and therefore a lot of sensitivity and thought must go into these dialogues. It is important that art paves the way for social, political, environmental and philosophical justice.

Reshaping Art articulates how art is the important vocabulary for social change and the roles of democracy and art in an evolving society. Famous artists across India and the world have been attacked in the past and even now. How can artists resist and urge for reforms?
We have to first accept that India has never been a truly free society. Beyond the specific ?assaults on artists?, from time immemorial, artists belonging to marginal sections of society have been attacked and killed. When ?they have occurred,? very few protested. It is only when the famous or recognisable have been hounded that we have got together. It is this insensitivity that has led to the situation we are? in ?today. It is essential that artists continue to do the?work in spite of all resistance and fight ?the ?fear that surrounds us?. It is many small beautiful actions that create a?n awakened society.

Have you found friends and supporters among the Carnatic community in south India with your open criticisms of the music and the community? Or is it your lone battle?
I have made many friends from the art, academic, political and activist world. In Karnatik music, I have many friends especially from the younger generation. They may not speak in public but they are engaging with these issues. They do not necessarily entirely agree with me, but I know they are serious about the issues and also recognise the problems. It is my generation and those who are older who find it difficult to grapple with the issues being raised and prefer to remain in denial.

In south India, Dalit musicians take pride in composing film songs in Carnatic ragas and revel in appreciation by Brahmin musicians. Is it not problematic?   
The problem lies in the fact that like any other aspect of Indian society, caste aspiration is at the bedrock of even aesthetic respect. This is troublesome because it is an ingrained one-way-movement. Artistic dialogues need to be multi-directional. They need to bring down the socio-aesthetic ego of the classical and enable self-respect and pride among the marginalised. If Dalit musicians singing Karnatik ragas are celebrated then art forms like the gana that belong to the subaltern must find mainstream proscenium stages. And within Karnatik music itself the Dalit must be able to bring in compositions that reflect his/her socio-religious and political ideas. The Dalit cannot be forced to subversively become Brahminical.

In Reshaping Art, you raise the issue of why North Indian Classical musicians, of whom there are both Hindu and Muslim performers, must speak about inclusion. Is it needed in Hindustani music too?
Somehow Hindustani musicians feel that they exist beyond the caste/religion discourse. If you observe carefully you will find that this is not true. I am sure they will name a few musicians to disregard this charge, very much like Karnatik musicians speak of exceptions to deny reality. Hindustani music seems to lack serious caste diversity. I do feel that even with regard to religion though Hindustani music has numerous Muslim musicians, vocal music today is dominated by Maharashtrian Brahmins. And I think the Hindustani world must remember that Hinduism and Islam are not the only two religions that inhabit this country! Also within the Hindustani narrative, Hindu spirituality is so ingrained that everyone somehow or the other has to surrender to it. Is that really necessary?

You write about how the aesthetics of Carnatic music conceals “the sheer grotesqueness of its being”? Will you distance yourself from it if you find it so loathsome?
All art is created amongst ugliness?. It is the job of the artist to allow the ugliness to imbue his/her art and in doing so awaken it from aesthetic slumber. I will keep singing that will and can never stop.